MEETING IN GERMANY …. What the experts say

There was an interview held in Germany with Professor Inderjeet Singh of Khalsa College, Dr Amarjit of Guru Nanak University and Bhai Variam Singh from Khadur Sahib.  

The discussion is centered around private programme which was held in Germany in March 2017.  See FB link

Apparently the three gentlemen had been invited for a Guru Gobind Singh 350th year Prakash Purab seminar but the event turned out to be a private meeting to denigrate the “Bachitar Natak”, a misnomer used for Dasam Granth.  According to the video they attended one session of about 4 hours.

The main focus on this article is related to Gurmat/Gurbani  (SGGS Ji and Dasam Granth) and the Panth.  Issues related to the invitation to visit Germany is not taken up.


(Comments in italics)

Time Summary of Discussion
0:00  Introduction
1:39 Prof Inderjeet Singh outlines that they had been at a meeting with the group linked with ex-communicated Ragi Darshan (referred to the RD Group below). 
2:15 Prof Inderjeet Singh talks about the private meeting where the RD group denigrated the Dasam Granth, Harmandir Sahib, Nitnem Banees, Sants and many other issues.
3:10 Prof Inderjeet responses to the point made by the interviewer that there is presently no problem in Europe in relation to Dasam Granth and the discussions held will not be recognised in the Panth.  As for the discussions when Prof Inderjeet realised the actual intent of the meeting his team were not prepared to have discussions with the RD Group.  As for Dasam Granth in relation to Europe, he pointed out that Dasam Granth Banee, Jaap Sahib, Sawaeeyay, Chaupai as well as Ardas are recited throughout Europe.
7:57 Prof Inderjeet clarified that the RD Group use of Bachitar Natak to refer to Dasam Granth is incorrect.  Bachitar Natak is only one of the compositions in Dasam Granth which has 43 pages (ਪੰਨੇ).
8:12 The interviewer pointed out that there is no issues in Europe related to Dasam Granth, Nitnem Banees, Kakars, Amrit Sanchar, Rehat Maryada etc.  He pointed out that these issues are intentionally being propagated in Europe.  The outcome of these discussions cannot be implemented on the Sangat in Europe in particular and the Sikh Panth in general.  Why hold this meeting.  Prof Inderjeet explained that since the meeting was private and those who are interested in the Dasam Granth are not involved they decided not to proceed.  They wanted to have a meeting in a Gurdwara in front of the Sangat not hidden in room where others are prevented from attending.
9:53 Prof Inderjeet pointed out that as far as Dasam Granth is concerned, the many hand written “Beedan ਬੀੜਾਂ” and there is no question as to the authenticity of Dasam Granth.   There is no reason to explain the authenticity to the ex-communicated and those who cast doubts on the authenticity of Dasam Granth.  He cited that in the past all those who casted such doubts eventually had to ask for forgiveness at Akal Takht.  The RD Group  even question the existence of Akal Takhts and its orders.
10:49 The interviewer asked about history of the Banees for Nitnem and Amrit Sanchar.  Prof Inderjeet Singh said that the hand written works of Bhai Jeta Ji and Baba Jiwan Singh indicate that these were recited from the time of Guru Gobind Singh.  Khalsa College also has handwritten Dasam Granth Beedh and there are many other hand written Beedhs available which bear evidence to this.  Prof Inderjeet also said that the RD Group claim that the Ardas was written by the English and also denigrate Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale.
13:00 The interviewer stated that the RD Group criticise Amrit Sanchar, Nitnem Banees, Jaap Sahib, Sawaeeyay, Chaupai, Ardas, Rehat Maryada, Sarowar; they seem to be criticising everything.  His question was how to solve this issue.  Prof explain using the crop as a metaphor.  Weeds will definitely grow in the crop.  Likewise in the Nanak Nirmal Panth there will be such “weeds”. There were Ram Rai’s, Dhirmal’s,  Pirthiyas, Wadhbhagias, etc.  Like weeds in crop, in the Dharam such people will appear but we must not fear.  It is the duty of the Khalsa Panth to identify these “weeds” and eliminate them.  He said that the Panth will act to eliminate these “weeds”.
16:15 The interviewer asked that though General Subeg Singh organised Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale’s men in 1984, the RD Group question why he did not get credit for his work but Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale is made a hero.  Prof Inderjeet Singh said that it depends on the SHAKSIAT (personality).  In a like manner tomorrow the RD Group will question how come Guru Gobind was credited for fighting 14 battles when the Sikh fought them?  RD Group person Dilgeer is writing against Sant Gurbachan Singh, Sant Jarnail Singh and even against the Guru Granth Sahib at Hazoor Sahib.  Can we expect any better from these RD Group?
18:47 The interviewer now asks Dr Amarjit Singh what he has to say about the RD Group questioning Amrit Sanchar, Nitnem Banees, Jaap Sahib, Sawaeeyay, Chaupai, Ardas, Rehat Maryada, Sarowar.   Dr Amarjit replied that from 1710 up 1843 there was not such question about these.  
19:56 The interviewer pointed out that the RD Group even state that our then historical documents were lost in the Sarsa River.  Dr Amarjit said in spite of this they have substantial historical records from around 1770 and even battle records from 1733.
21:45 The interviewer states that the RD Group are questioning Amrit Sanchar, Nitnem Banees, Jaap Sahib, Sawaeeyay, Chaupai; by removing all these they may one day say Guru  Gobind Singh did not give Guruship to Guru Granth Sahib.  Dr Amarjit said that Dilgeer has already stated this.  In fact they are going further and it will be known soon.  Just like the Pasaudias said “Satgur Bina Hor Kachee Hai Banee” and based on this they do not believe in Bhatt Bani, Bhagat Banee.  In fact some ten years back a member of the RD Group when questioned about the status of similar compositions in SGGS Ji to those they question in Dasam Granth.  The RD Group member said the same will be the case with SGGS Ji as for the Dasam Granth.  He goes on to state that the RD Group , who are BEAMRITI, do not understand the relationship of a Sikh with the Guru.  The RD Group have no faith, without faith there is nothing.  
23:41 The interviewer said that RD Group claim allegiance to SGGS Ji.  Dr Amarjit replied that this allegiance to SGGS Ji is just an excuse; there is no Sikh in the world who does not accept the SGGS Ji as Guru.  They just make an issue about Dasam Granth on par with/level with etc with SGGS Ji.  They are just using SGGS Ji as an excuse to question all the Sikh beliefs and practices. Dr Amarjit says having questioned all these, they will come to SGGS Ji.  They will use “Satgur Bina Hor Kachee Hai Banee” and start removing Bhagat and Bhatt Banee etc just like the Pasaurdia did around 1905.
25.:10 The interviewer questioned on the resolution of the issues under discussion.  Dr Amarjit said that such issues like Amrit Vela are Panthic issues and small groups cannot solve such issues.  The interviewer then asked why they are sending people around to discuss these issues.  The ensuing discussion revealed that this is just to propagate their ideologies.  Most of the Sangat knows this.  Prof Inderjeet said.  The RD Group will not be successful for example the Ardas or Amrit Sanchar has not changed throughout the world.   They tried to make this change in Virginia but the whole committee ended up apologising to Akal Takht.  Metaphorically the “Sunrise” of the Panth cannot be impacted by such people.  Dr Amarjit added that these people will not be successful, many have come e.g. Ram Rai’s, Dhirmal’s but have failed in their agendas.  
28:10 The interviewer asked what can be done by Panthic leaders to rid the panth of this misleading ideology and bring back unity in the Panth.  Dr Amarjit pointed out that all these issues are already been solved.  The RD Group are just recycling these issues to create controversy.  The most from the Panth perspective is for Akal Takht is to ex-communicate the perpetrators.  This has already been done.
29:15 The interviewer than posed the question to Variam Singh.  Variam Singh said that the Sikhs are a small minority but very successful.  So there are some who are not happy with this situation and want to create a split. It is our duty to find out who these are and act accordingly and only then will there be Panth Ekta.
30:10 In summing the interviewer asked what shall the Sikh Sangat do?  Prof Inderjeet advised that the Sangat recognise the good and bad and make the correct decision by disregarding the elements that question the SRM, Kakar, Amrit Sanchar Banees, our Symbols and our long standing practices. The Panth to a degree have recognised this, and that is the reason the Panth is not allowing them time in Gurdwaras.
31:53 The interviewer thanked all present.

NOTE: Time marking above refers to the time from the commencement of the video.  The marking is 1:39 means 1 min and 39 sec from the start of the video.

For interest compare the essential points in their discussion with the below summary which shows the scenario if the ideology propagated by these RD Group and associates is successful. 

If the ADNs have thier way

meeting germany